RE: Giant TLUD??? Was:RE: [biochar] Kelpie half tank rim

Gordon,

Thanks for that photo and description. Do you have this info in a “document” form that could be posted to a website of reference materials (such as for Stoves or at drtlud.com or your own website)?

About pipe getting clogged. Suggestion, but not yet tested. If the pipe is with negative pressure (gases being drawn through it, not being pushed through it), consider having an appropriately spaced series of small (tiny) holes in the pipe that is filled with combustible gases. This could give tiny flames inside the pipe, providing heat that would keep the gases from condensing. Of course, also use insulation.

Paul

Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP
Email: psanders@ilstu.edu<mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu> Skype: paultlud
Phone: Office: 309-452-7072 Mobile: 309-531-4434
Website: www.drtlud.com<www.drtlud.com>

From: biochar@yahoogroups.com <biochar@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2019 7:48 AM
To: biochar <biochar@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: Giant TLUD??? Was:RE: [biochar] Kelpie half tank rim

We have been using a “little giant” TLUD for many years. It’s a 500 gallon propane tank standing on end. We have used wood chips and pecan shells as feedstock. For a while we tried piping the syngas back to ground level for use in a burner – it worked, but the long distance traveled in uninsulated pipe caused a lot of condensation of tars and it liked to plug up.

It seems to work okay up to 15-18% moisture content. The tank rotates over and dumps out the top. Shutting off the air supply snuffs it out, for the most part (it can be left overnight to cool with only minor ash production. After dumping the biochar is either put in 55 gallon drums with tight lids, or put directly into a large compost tea mixer for complete quenching and charging with nutrients and microbes.

Gordon
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On Aug 17, 2019, at 7:59 AM, ‘kchisholm’ kchisholm@seaside.ns.ca<mailto:kchisholm@seaside.ns.ca> [biochar] <biochar@yahoogroups.com<mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:

Hi Dick

What about the possibility of standing the Rail Tanks on end, and turning them into giant TLUD’s?

Obviously, there would be more “pre-preparation” of the waste biomass, in terms of sizing and drying, but there may be adequate advantages to consistency of operation, and ease of handling the end products, to justify the extra “front end cost”.

Clearly, TLUD’s work with pellets dried to less than 10% moisture. A “Tanker TLUD” should also work with dried pellets. The issue would seem to be: “How large a wood chunk and how high a misture level would work in a “Tanker TLUD”?

Has anyone done any work on determining the required “Chunk Size and Moisture Content Limits” for TLUD’s?

Is there sufficient market for the potential biochar production to make the concept economically feasible, if there was good reason to believe that it could be technically feasible?

Best wishes,

Kevin

From: biochar@yahoogroups.com<mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com> [mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com] Sent: August 16, 2019 11:18 PM
To: biochar@yahoogroups.com<mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [biochar] Kelpie half tank rim

Thanks for responding Paul. Let me ramble a bit here first. The flimsy half fuel tank, which Kelpie also showed an Oregon tree service using, is about the only farm/city sized loader with jaws, filling a simple larger kiln that I’ve seen here. The City tree crew averages 2 or 3 14′ long truck loads a day. www.thefarm.winona-mn.us/biochar.html

I won’t do this again, but this smoky photo of loading town peoples light brush with the backhoe, which had weathered 2 or 3 yrs., had some answers. That I thought the 10′ dia fuel tank rim that I put in the ground was closer to 16′ down than 8′, which wife Sue gave it, there was obviously no air coming in from below. The 11′ dia cover had dirt around the edge, a flat stone covered most of the 4″ hole on the coned top of the cover. The steel cover was hot for 3 wks.. There was no visible smoke, just the acrid smell of pyrolysis. Everything charred, but unloading it with the backhoe, is too slow.

I haven’t tried the 10′ dia X 30′ tank in a few yrs., but should get some help now from the City. I had a 7’X 7′ door cut at ground level for unloading. The old log truck can easily load from the top. The 16′ silo bunker walls have been holding 16′ of clay for 16 yrs., with no sign of weakening.
The City even mentioned applying for a grant.

Things I like about Kelpies 20′ X 10′ dia. half rr tank is that the DNR Forester’s burn permit for me is only 8 to 4, which would be long enough to have the half rim full of coals. When flipped over it should seal. Then with a pipe retorting, from one or both ends, top to bottom, there should be no sign of smoke or flame and we’ll find out how well it chars.

How high would your rr tank rim be and how would you load it? The Mn. law puts burning in a container under MPCA.. I can imagine the 2 burn agencies arguing over whether Kelpies half tank rim is an open or contained burn. We fed hogs food waste for 20 yrs.. It is up to each state whether they allow it and if they do, then they must regulate it, including that it be cooked. If not cooked, it has to be composted, which is an entirely different ball game, under MPCA, who was about to take over on this farm, because I don’t lie well, at all, but the State Ag. inspector, almost physically pushed the MPCA person, with his nose in the rule book, out of the way, saying “We’ll take care of this”. Because we were the only 1 out of 8 licensed to feed in Mn. who were cooking with wood, which gives them no way to be sure we were cooking vs. those using steam, our hogs all left at the end of 2018. Now, to see when and where the African Swine Flue/Fever shows up..
Ah Robert in Vt… As you know how that African Swine Fever is real tough, the speed with which it swept China, so the authorities will be looking for your kilns–composting won’t be the answer. Our Ag Inspector said it can survive the salami, bacon and ham processing.

I

On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 2:05 PM ‘Anderson, Paul’ psanders@ilstu.edu<mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu> [biochar] <biochar@yahoogroups.com<mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:

Dick,

About the cutting of a RR tank car, I think it is best to not cut it horizontally. My work is with keeping the top covered. Put in a loading door (long slot with lid) and also having chimneys near top to keep the emissions together so that they can be controlled when burning the off-gases.).

That would be much less work than the horizontal cut and welding on ends.

Necessary air is to enter via retractable pipes. I am slowly gaining experience with this. A phone call would work better than typing an email.

Paul

Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP
Email: psanders@ilstu.edu<mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu> Skype: paultlud
Phone: Office: 309-452-7072 Mobile: 309-531-4434
Website: www.drtlud.com<www.drtlud.com/>

From: biochar@yahoogroups.com<mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com> <biochar@yahoogroups.com<mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com>>
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 11:41 AM
To: biochar@yahoogroups.com<mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [biochar] Kelpie half tank rim